Murders aren’t usually the topic of conversation among RVers. But then again, two recent Texas beach camping murders aren’t your every day homicides. The tragic end of James and Michelle Butler’s lives has RVers buzzing with chatter all over the Internet. Many like myself are questioning the safety of free camping in remote places.
The Butlers Did What Other RVers Do All The Time
From the Butler family’s Facebook page, ‘Finding Michelle and James Butler.’
James Butler had recently retired from the U.S. Navy when he and his wife Michelle decided to give the full-time RVing lifestyle a try. The New Hampshire residents were full-time RVers for just over a year when they took a break from a series of workamping jobs.
After staying in a Corpus Christi RV park along with their three cats, they packed up and went boondocking on a lonely stretch of Corpus Christi shoreline.
The Butlers set up camp in a free spot near Padre Island National Seashore between Mile Markers 263 and 264. It’s called “The Bowl” and it’s near the border, but in an area considered as “family friendly” according to locals quoted in news outlets. The stretch of sand has few people, wide open spaces and oceanfront views.
RV camping on Corpus Christi National Seashore camping spot (not the Butler’s rig).
Over the years thousands of people have gone camping on the Texas Gulf Coast. The Butlers may have discovered that free spot in one of the many free campsite websites throughout the Internet.
Once settled, they called their relatives to tell them they found their new home for a week or two and were never heard from again.
What Happened to the Butlers?
Less than two weeks after losing contact with relatives, authorities found their remains buried in the sand on October 27, 2019. Days later, the Kleburg County Sheriff Department released photographic proof of a man driving the Butlers’ truck and trailer over the Mexican border.
According to the sheriff’s office, a convicted Utah felon, 33-year-old Adam Curtis Williams and a person of interest, Amanda Noverr, also with a criminal background, crossed at the Piedras Negras Mexico border crossing with the couple’s RV. Williams and Noverr were arrested in Mexico less than two weeks after appearing on surveillance video. As of press time they are are awaiting extradition to the United States.
Did they Know the Texas Beach Boondocking Spot Was Dangerous?
North Padre Island Texas beach camping
Each day, RVers like myself travel all over the U.S. doing exactly what the Butlers did; we take advantage of free camping spots. Sometimes it’s in parking lots, and other times you’ll find us in the same kind of scenic area where the Butlers were killed.
Speaking from personal experience gained from twelve years full-time RVing, nine times out of ten my husband and I do what other RVers do when choosing a free campsite: we rely on street smarts and other RVers for information about a destination. Checking the crime statistics ourselves for an area that already seems safe just isn’t something we’ve done. But now, I’m thinking perhaps we should.
A local Corpus Christi News 6 was one of the first media outlets to report on other missing persons cases in the Corpus Christi beach camping area.
“The Butlers are among five people who have been reported missing in the Coastal Bend over the last two months. Bradley Brooks hasn’t been seen or heard from since August. His car was found at the end of Stingray Road which is near NAS-Corpus Christi. Ruben Galvan was reported missing on Sept. 22. The 48-year old man is known to frequent the downtown area. And the Corpus Christi Police Department still is looking for Jessica Martinez. She was reported missing last Wednesday.”
The Pros and Cons of Camping Choices
It’s safe to assume that if the Butlers had known about those missing people, they probably would have camped elsewhere. We’ll never know for sure what went through their minds when they picked that spot, but debate about their sad story is taking place all over the Internet, in places like the iRV2 Forum Topic, “Caution for Texas Campers.”
Some iRV2 members believe that all choices have some form of risk. They won’t change the way they camp just because of this murder.
“If we never went to a city/destination where someone was murdered, we’d all be living in Antarctica. Baton Rouge and New Orleans are the murder capital of Louisiana, but people still go there in droves. If you knew how often people are murdered there, you wouldn’t dare go anywhere near it. Murder doesn’t even make the evening news anymore. The fact that this incident made the news and is being shared around is actually evidence that it’s incredibly rare. There really isn’t a reason to change your plans or be any more afraid of Corpus Christi or Padre Island than you were a year ago. Just keep doing whatever you’ve been doing to keep yourself safe. – iRV2 member itchytoe
Other RVers say that taking a chance on free, isolated campsites puts you right in the path of criminals.
From what I read online I get the impression that more and more RVers are choosing to find “non-traditional” places to spend the night rather than paying to stay in RV parks. Parking lots, rest areas, etc, now seem to be the locations of choice for many people. IMO there’s nothing wrong with that; people are free to make their own choices. But there’s inherently less security in, for example, a Walmart parking lot than there is at an RV park. My wife and I stay exclusively at RV parks and/or other established campgrounds (State, federal, etc). For us the security is worth the $30-40/night we typically end up paying. JMO – iRV2 member docj
Will the Texas Beach Camping Murders Change How You RV?
Every day, untold numbers of RVers like myself decide to skip paying rent and stay outside of a traditional campground or RV park. We may or may not be putting themselves in harms way and hopefully we’ll never know. One thing is certain, however. The next time my husband and I choose to boondock in an out-of-the-way spot, the Butlers will definitely be in our thoughts.
Are you one of the many RVers who choose free campsites over paid? How have the deaths of the full-timing couple affected you? Will this tragedy change where and how you camp? Why or why not? Comment below and share your opinions.
Rene Agredano and her husband, Jim Nelson, became full-time RVers in 2007 and have been touring the country ever since. In her blog, Rene chronicles the ins and outs of the full-timing life and brings readers along to meet the fascinating people and amazing places they visit on the road. Her road trip adventures are chronicled in her blog at LiveWorkDream.com.
Being alive is in itself a risk! I take a risk every time I walk down my basement steps.
To think there is any real security in this world is a fool’s errand. Can I increase the odds? Yes, of course. Can I eliminate risk? Not for a moment.
So, you have to decide if you are going to shut yourself up in your own castle in the hope you will live LONGER, or you will go out, explore, see the world, and truly LIVE! Your choice, but I know what I am going to do…
It has changed our thoughts on boondocking. We will never stay where there are no other campers who look reputable. We will definitely stay at more RV parks. Every time we decide to boondock ‘this couple will be in our thoughts.
I use to live at Padre on the island.That stretch of beach in between Bob Hall fishing pier and the National sea shore is a very dangerous place.Theres a bunch of weirdos that hang out down there and it’s very isolated .There isn’t much law down there because of distance they must travel to get down there to patrol.One night I was fishing down there and was getting back in my truck and this crazy guy got out of his vehicle and was staggering up to me.I cursed him and warned him I was fixing to put some serious hurt on him and he still came I just got in my vehicle and left.From that night on never went back on that particular stretch.I would just go to the national seashore much safer with park rangers around patrolling.Yes drifters running from law always seem to end at Texas beach towns eg Robert Durst plus the lady who murder another lady stoled her identity .My heart goes out to this family.What also hurt knowing this sob threw her cats out to I’m sure.I hope they bring back ole sparky and fry him like bacon.He was nothing but a loser punk thug by the look of his mug shot.I hope he burns in hell for eternity.Deep sorrow and sympathy to the family.
It is time for RV’s to be considered, without a doubt, your domicile in legal circles so that the good people can properly defend themselves. Certain laws and attitudes keep good people from proper safety and security.
My husband and I have stayed in state parks when we were the only ones there. One place in Ohio felt particularly scary when the same car kept driving back and forth by our site. We paid for our site online but never saw single park official.
In Texas it is considered your home and you have the right to arm yourself. Not doing that is crazy!
Correct.
Try arming yourself in Canada! The only ones who are armed are the criminals.. we drove the Alaska highway last summer, a week after we were there 3 people were murdered near Liard hot springs, right where we were. Had they been able to defend them selves may be they’d be alive today….
Yeah, I too have to deal with drug addicts, illegal aliens and all manner of criminal behavior while trying to negotiate the stairs to my basement..
Can I eliminate the risk.?? Why of course.! I choose to live and remain upstairs and refuse to use the basement under any circumstances..
Won’t change my camping methods. I always go armed,and..while it’s a sad commentary on RV life in general,no one is above suspicion until proven otherwise. Rather be safe than sorry.
Oh you’re funny!
Absolutely agree. In fact in our travels we have found with other RVers we’ve met along the way, the majority travel well-armed, hubby and I included. It’s a shame this couple did not.
We will not change the way we travel and camp. We feel very safe relying on ourselves for safety and protection, and woe to any who jeaporadize that safety.
Yes the world can be a dangerous place, but as many has says, so can walking in a parking lot. There’s been many women of all ages who have disappeared in local grocery store parking lots in our area never to been seen again.
As far as Boonedocking we have joined Boonedockers.com where you can stay on peoples property. There you can read their profile and see what other people have said about their stay while on their property. Also that is why we carry as well, not looking to use it but to continue to enjoy our lives.
Again look into Boonedockers.com.
No this would not change how I camp, as mentioned in your article there are more murders and crime in cities like, New Orleans, Memphis, New York and lots of people still travel to those destinations. Unfortunately living in society comes with a risk, they say about 10% of people are lets say not who you would like to call a friend. That being the case you are liable to run into them everywhere, just hope and pray the outcome is not what these people pore loved ones are living with. Now that they have caught the suspects I can only hope the full extend of justice is brought to them and TX does not play when it comes to murder convictions.
Everyone is looking for cheap places to stay. The entire RV travel has gotten out of hand. Too many people, especially young ones like this couple, taking time off to RV full time. Resources are limited and now these young ones are straining the resources. Causing prices to go up in RV parks and forcing people to seek free spots.
oh, yes how dare other people, especially “young ones” enjoy rv life, I suppose we should just leave it to the grouchy old farts like you then. DAM’N KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!
I worked at a Corpus Christi hotel in 2010. This included Spring Break. What these tourist destinations rarely say is how dangerous it can be. The cops told me. The park rangers told me. Locals told me. The beach is not a safe place to stay. I’m from Florida. I decided the beaches there stopped being safe at night back in the late 70’s when my then-boyfriend and I ran into the drug runners with their uzis. Yet the tourist industry never told tourists to stay off the remote beaches at night. My choice would be to not stay on any remote beach overnight. I do stay in Sam’s Club parking lots overnight. Sometimes in Cracker Barrel parking lot or a truck stop lot. But deserted areas and Wal-Mart lots have not been a terribly safe choice for me. Just my experience.
This is so sad. I’m wondering how or why the Butler’s let their guard down or didn’t carry. As a single woman traveling by myself, I have spent a night or two in a Walmart or Sam’s Club parking lot, rest area or truck stop when I was worn out and just couldn’t drive further. I do not, however, park my rig anywhere that is isolated or off the beaten path. I have never been afraid of someone breaking in or doing me harm. I carry and have immediate access to my “friend” and a Taser at all times. I’m not afraid to use it for any reason and I’m a crack shot. Mess with me, my kitties or my property, you’re going down; NO IF’S, AND’S OR BUT’S!
Agree. Given the world we live in today, not availing oneself of a CCL, a weapon, and proficiency using it is an unacceptable risk.
The Butlers were not not near the border , padre island national seashore park , is approximately 65 miles long, no roads all beach, the first 5 miles are for camping and are family friendly, after that be careful , park rangers patrol but not that often and most of the time you will need four wheel drive.
Living life is a risk. As a criminal justice major who has regular interaction with the criminal personality, I am more careful than most people. I know plenty of people who have a false sense of security because they carry a gun, or live in a “safe” neighborhood that doesn’t require them to keep their doors locked. Many people are operating under a sense of false security, believing that they could never be a victim. Anyone can become a victim. We have missing people from east Texas (the “Texas 40”) who disappeared from rural country roads, which we expect to be safe. A Walmart parking lot is safer than a deserted beach. Safety in numbers. If you are interested in honing your instincts, check out this book from retired FBI profiler Mary Ellen O’Toole, “Dangerous Instincts: Use an FBI Profiler’s Tactics to Avoid Unsafe Situations,” at your local public or online library.
I am actually staying now in the Hatch RV park in Corpus Christi, and while I’m fine with my pull-through space, the area around the park is pretty scary. That said, in a couple of days I do intend to spend the next couple of nights after this RV park, on the island boondocking before heading to Austin. Life is too short and bad stuff (like the epidemic and these murders)happen. I don’t believe that we should fear death or calamity.
If your time is up it’s up. Not fatalist, but a part of the Judeo-Christian fabric that founded this country. (Job 14:1-5; Psalm 139:16; Philippians 1:21)
Considering my European upbringing, my wife and I are quite cautious considering the places we go & stay. If it does not smell right, so to speak, we won’t go or stay there. If my inner alarm bells go off once or twice, we won’t stay there or leave. In addition, we recently also set ourselves up with the appropriate protection.
No matter where we RV, among the usual precautions, we go armed. I’d rather face prosecution under some stupid state, city or county firearms law than be dead.
Love the attitude! Me too 😎
I can carry but I don’t. But I carry bear spray (pepper spray) I boondock little at calbela’s or walmarts. Bear spray on the ready in the camper at night and carry on my belt daytime. Laws to follow not needed you can buy it over the. counter.
I totally agree. I have been more concern in some overly priced campgrounds than I can count. You need to be well lighted and armed. PS. A big bad dog😀
Exactly.
As the old saying goes: “I’d rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6.”
Have 2 CCL’s that make it “legal” to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights in most of the thinking States, but that equalizer is always on my person. I will never be a sheep, just an old sheepdog.
What Jack said.
Only you can provide for your own safety, or at least increase the odds.
What if you all were having a romantic night by the fire outside with a beer or class of wine – looking at the stars and enjoying the ocean waves and this mother ass piece of sh@& 💩sneaks up behind you and shots you both in the head – I want to know how they were shot – what they were doing or even if this met this piece of shit 💩 people – it’s saddens me that this could be my husband and I along with our dogs 💔💔💔💔💔
Now you know WHY you carry a gun, not because you think you will find trouble, but because trouble may find you!
Amen..both I and my wife are CCW holders, trained, observant and armed 24/7 …bks we know that when trouble is moments away, the 5-OH is minutes to hours away..at best.
As the saying goes: Better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6!
You should not be afraid to defend yourself or your family!
Amen!
I totally agree with Jack. and Don Pryor.
Exactly!
It was a very unfortunate event and my heart goes out to the Butler family. However, there is either more to the story we are not hearing about or it was a truly random event. If this was a truly random event it is unfortunate but we should not be deterred from seeing some awesome places or letting it escalate to fear and paranoia about boondocking. IMO, “streets smart” is always a good thing but even that can’t account for being in the wrong place at the right time. A week earlier or later at that location and things could have been completely different.
I agree as I have secured multiple state carry permits, don’t leave home without it!!
We are a canadian couple soon to have an rv and travel south. Also here in british columbia we always have a couple of rifles with us in remote areas for protection from wild animals, in the case of a person with ill will it might be better having a concealed handgun. I learned that as a non citizen in the US we are not permitted to have any firearms unless granted permission from the attorney general or a state hunting license.
We also experience the same going North. Americans can’t protect themselves while across the border in Canada. It would be wonderful if our two countries would have reciprocity.
There is more to the story. I live about 8 miles away and I was at the crime scene the morning after the bodies were discovered. CBP and DHS were represented because they suspected cartel involvement and sure enough, the footage of the killers crossing the border confirmed. They weren’t going to Mexico to live in that RV, which was actually a Chevy 2500 pickup pulling a Cedar Creek 5th wheel.
From the moment the killers were extradited to Texas, the presiding judge imposed a gag order and if you understand gag orders, you know there are only two reasons they are imposed… either one side or the other or both are apt to use media to prejudice the case or it’s a matter of national security.
These people were attempting to sell the truck to one of the mexican drug cartels that uses them for trafficking people and drugs. This is nothing new for this part of the state. If you have a larger truck around here it willk probably be targeted for theft. I know this is a few years after the fact but it’s a bigger concern now than it was even then because of the border situation and the skyrocketing cost of heavy duty trucks. I never go anywhere unarmed.
Its the same at most campgrounds there’s no security , even state and forest campground and most privates, unless you pay big bucks for a gated campground. I’ve been to campgrounds when the ranger (if there is one) leaves for the night and the campground is open to the night roamers. So I carry a little protection just in case.
My husband and I almost went camping there glad we didn’t. It’s very remote and you could be there for days and see no one. I don’t think they allow you to have guns there
There is a TON of information about this case.
The suspected Criminal, has a long history of criminal activity going back to 2005.
He should have never been granted bail in Utah! He failed to appear and ended up in Texas.
Great justice system.
We have never boondocked and after reading this article, we will continue to camp in campgrounds that have security folks (that will not stop someone from endangering another’s life) because we feel safer in those parks. We do try and take precautions at the places we camp and we do want to be able to feel safe and secure in whatever campground we stay. I had never thought of someone coming up and killing another camper. Times have certainly changes. Our prayers and thought go out to those folks. This world has changed so much, I grew up in an era when you could go to bed at night, leave windows open and not worry about someone coming in to do bodily harm to the family.
Always have protection on board, including pepper spray. Camping world has a keychain pepper spray for women. Small and effective.
Now days it is probably a very good idea to place cameras around your RV so you can see who or what is coming your way before they show up at the door or inside of your RV. Best be armed and have the training on how to use your weapon in a tense situation or being under attack.
You can’t spend your life worrying about what could happen , otherwise you would never do anything . Be careful where you stop and if things don’t look or feel right move on. Occasionally bad things happen to good people,that’ just the world we live in.
Don, I have stayed in quite a few RV parks and have yet to be in one with armed security.
I wonder if carrying weapons would have helped. I have a concealed carry permit from my state.
I prefer to stay in Walmart parking lots under their security cameras and lights. I have seen at least one WN security system and it picks up details quite well. I park with my door facing the cameras.
Makes no difference…. we have been accosted in rv campgrounds from the beggers and homeless… that get upset with you for not GIVING to them.. which makes you wonder if you will have problems the rest of the night… AT the other end is the boondocking… to which YOU are out their alone… here a good little dog works for a intrusion alarm… that and a good 12 ga shotgun become your first line of defense. That being said… the number of times we have been conserned I can count on one hand when we were out boondocking.
Actually from my experiance… you stand a better chance of wildlife intrusions than the two legged kind. Not to say it can’t happen but, being out away from all most bad folks don’t spend the time or money… where as in parking lots and rest areas… you have the low lifes that will try and take what you have… knowing they have nothing to lose.
Remember one thing we learned in the sheriffs aux… have a defendable space… and better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 when the going gets ruff… and it becomes a issue of them or you…
no it won’t change our camping experiances…..
Mr. Butler was a veteran with a license to carry, from published reports. The illusion of protection because you carry a gun is as false as the illusion of danger in every secluded spot.
The woman and her small child may have lured the Butlers out into danger, we do not know. It’s our natural instinct to help that can open the door to evil people without a whiff of the danger.
Yes it will change how and where we camp. We will be extra cautious, and will not open our door for strangers, instead calling police for them if they need help. We will be much more selective when dry docking. And we will be looking over a shoulder for a long time to come.
I, a single female, traveled towing my travel trailer, from West Palm Beach, FL all the way into British Columbia, CAN to the state line of Alaska and returned. All the while carrying my cancelled carry, right on my hip. Never felt more secure traveling than I would in a city.
Because of our border situation, in south Texas you must assume that secluded spots are dangerous. People should not boondock on Padre Island without being informed on the risks and armed with situational awareness and firepower to deal with them because help isn’t coming and the island in particular is crawling with opportunistic predators, including undocumented illegals that can disappear like a fart in the wind.
Doesn’t bother me…I am a pacifist at heart but always camp with weapons and am willing to protect myself and family. Don’t look for trouble…but if trouble finds you be prepared.
Agree. Judging from your response, most likely you carry. I’m wondering if this veteran was legal to carry in NH but chose to obey the restrictions of individual states and did not in their journey.
Permit reciprocity might have saved his life- or not, but we’ll never know. That shotgun in your closet is no substitute for the weapon on your person.
Broad conclusions on safety should not be drawn from anecdotal evidence. When on vacations, I typically spend one-third of nights in developed campgrounds; one-third in primitive campgrounds; and one-third in my own dispersed sites. I feel safest in dispersed sites where I have control over my location. With dispersed camping, I can avoid meeting other people, especially people and their pets who cause disturbances or express threatening behaviors. I feel most safe in a tent, miles from other people, sleeping in remote designated wilderness areas. About ten people a year die on Fourteeners in Colorado: I do not stop climbing Fourteeners. I choose safe behaviors on Fourteeners.
No, I doubt I would change the way we camp or pull into a place for a night. The idea of even owning a rv is to get away from it all. If I want to hang with a bunch of people I would take a cruise and I don’t see that happening.
Sad thing is all the news reports have said they were really nice people and probable befriended the couple. According to news reports here in the RGV even said there was a three year old traveling with the suspects. The man has been returned to the U.S. The woman and her child will be sent back as well. Knowing the area they were at it would not be a place where criminals would go looking to commit a crime.
My husband I have camped on the same beach. It is actually one of our favorites in Texas. I am shocked and saddened by what happened to the Butlers. I think, we will be less friendly to other RV’ers and stay more to ourselves in boondocking spots. However keep in mind that there is and always has been that small percentage of “bad people”. I refuse to stop enjoying my life so we will still be boondocking. PS we do carry a personal locator beacon with text capabilities. It works where cell phones do not work aka via satellite plus it pings and our trail can be followed….
Hey Karoline, I read your response and am curious about the device you carry. Is it the Garmin InReach?
Whats the brand name of your texting device?
I will take more precautions when I camp. Whether it be an Rv site Or Boondocking. Trust no one.
our So can you please provide more information on your PLB? Im interested.
No place is really safe any more. State campgrounds are cutting staff so after 4 pm you are on your own. If rowdy campers are nearby tough luck because there is no one there to help you. Choosing free sights especially boondocking is inherently dangerous. If no one is nearby there are no witnesses to a crime. My heart aches for the couple murdered in Texas, no one should have to end thier life that way. I will still rv, but always have and will continue to be especially careful and cautious.
Nice article, but true to camping full time, we go where we want despite those risks. If you look vulnerable or have tendencies that you expose too much to strangers your more at risk of being taken advantage of. Just play it cool and not be too discriminating.
It will probably be sometime before all the facts in this case are known to the public. It is unfortunate that these decent people were murdered doing what many of us do without really thinking much about it. As a footnote, two of the missing people noted in the article (Galvan and Martinez) have been found and are safe.
At least there is a death penalty in Tx maybe it will be used in this case.
We are preparing for extended camping trips next year. The plan for boondocking is one part we were looking forward to. Reading this article is very disturbing. I’m not sure what we will do when the time comes, or if personal firearm protection is enough. We have been advised by several people not to be unprotected. Safety first! It’s a sad commentary that we can hike in bear country but not camp on a beach or a parking lot.
It all just makes us untrusting of our fellow humans. I just hope the next RVer does not kill some innocent person walking towards them out of fear.
Very good point – mass hysteria is never a good thing.
I travel armed. I am armed at home. I am armed most if the time.
No, I am not paranoid, I am cautious. The world is a great place but evil is around all the time. Being prepared to deal with it increases your chances of survival.
Go forward and seek adventure but do so armed and trained.
Sad, tragic event.
I ahve a question for all the liberal anti-gunners who propose yo take guns away form law-abiding Americans: where was the government to protect these innocent lives from being taken?
Where were the politicians who promise to make America safer by restricting your right to protect yourself? Where were the police who you are supposed to depend on? The answer is as it always will be: they can’t be everywhere. They certainly won’t be there while you’re being victimized.
The liberal anti-gunners, as you call them, are not out to take your guns away. That is a smear campaign put out by the NRA and our dufus president who says anything to get elected. The people who want gun control, and many of them do own guns, want background checks so people with a history of mental illness or violence don’t have guns, make it illegal to buy assault rifles made only for killing people and have been used a lot in the mass shooting we have now, and for people to get licensed after passing a safety test, as in a driver’s license. I come from a family of gun owners and hunters and have lost a brother to violence. I plan on traveling in our RV with protection too.
I think you are misinformed,the government does not want to take guns away from citizens.the government and we /all Americans do not want people with mental illness to have access to guns.If you are not mentally disturbed then you’re fine,don’t be too worry about your right to have firearms,with the way the world is going ,you just might need it to protect yourself from the very people we want to eliminate firearms from.Let’s hope you never have to use it .
Serious question, Is a browning 30-06 semi automatic with a multi shot clip an “assault weapon” if not, then could you please tell what is definitely and who decides? The same with mental illness, who decides. I’m assuming it will be the same type of people who populate our unelected govt positions now. No thanks
Fact check please, according to DOJ most murders are with blunt objects not firearms that look scary or hold more then 10 rounds.
The attack on the 2nd amendment is about population control like it has been everywhere else.
A free man or an enslaved man.
American Constitution or New World Order, choose wisely.
I definitely would not want to boondock without being armed. We most always stay in campgrounds.
Any idea if the Butlers were armed? I did read in one source that he was carrying.
“liberals” don’t want to take guns away from law abiding citizens….most “law abiding’ citizens don’t walk around with AK 47s and plenty of ammo strapped on…..we DO want to remove military assault type weapons for obvious reasons
Both of you are mis-informed …. haha …
The term “assault weapons” is a gun banners’ term. Assault rifles are fully automatic firearms that no civilians legally own now. Only criminals have them. Criminals and despots want you to support the ban of semi-automatic firearms in the possession of law abiding citizens. It makes their murderous crimes easier. Please inform yourself about YOUR right to self defense!
We camp but always in campgrounds and pay by the night have never stayed at free places and want. I am very scared of anything free and will never stay any place that doesn’t have gates and power and cable. I am not into this free stuff if I can’t pay for a nice site I will stay home. My life is to valuable sorry if I sound rude or ugly but people need me and I value my life.
As soon as you agree to institutionalize people who need it, clean up cities like SFO, help us establish border controls and stop protecting people who knowingly break our drug and immigration laws and stop “warning” people to behave over 30 times without doing anything proactice BEFORE they go out and kill defenseless kids, I’ll give up my semi-automatic rifles and other weapons. (You’ll note I did not say “Assault Weapons” as I can assure you as a former Marine, that no matter what they LOOK LIKE, no modern soldier considers those commercially available weapons as such.) In the meantime, I’ll keep mine. I can also assure you that as a “law abiding citizen” they and the MANY rounds of ammunition my wife and I have purchased, all legally I might add, and we are both trained and licensed to carry, have never been used in anger or to kill any living thing. Oh, and you’ll pardon me if I don’t believe most of what you wrote.
Agreed, except that with the proper FFL you CAN legally own certain fully automatic weapons depending on their date of manufacture. The background check is rigorous.
My question is “Did they carry a gun?” This is the exact reason why I do. We love to boondock and be off the grid as a matter of preference. We don’t like all the hub bub associated with parks. Part of the enjoyment is being alone with just nature. We tend to travel within our state and stay at places we feel are safe, but if an emergency arises, be it animal or human, I do feel safer knowing I have a gun.
2 words….concealed carry!
Lots remain unknown but I have read in local news reports that the Butlers were murdered inside their RV. They may have invited in the stranger couple “to have a look”. Since this event occurred near the water, people go swimming etc. No one can be armed all the time.
This makes it sound like they were in the middle of nowhere. They were three miles from Bob Hall Pier. Which is just another 3 to 4 miles to Padre Island National Seashore. It is a very busy stretch of beach. Lots of drug deals go down there. You can access the beach at Bob Hall and then exit just before you reach the National Seashore. If I had to venture a guess. They saw something they should not have. As far as close to the border. It’s another 150 miles to the border. What’s your definition of close
Actually, conceal carry is not the best option. I say open carry! Why? Because a criminal will think twice if he knows you are armed. Think about it…you are around your campfire enjoying the night and a stranger walks up. If he/she sees a weapon and is intending harm, don’t you think he would move away and not confront you, knowing you aren’t an “easy target”?
This will still allow you to be friendly and outgoing, which is the way most campers like their fellow campers to be. Otherwise, camping will devolve down into a solitary pursuit, and that eventually takes away one of the best parts of camping – getting to know other good people. Don’t let the bad people ruin it for the good people!
I disagree. Unless you know how to properly “open carry” it is too easy for someone stronger and faster than you to disarm and turn your weapon against you.
Bob,
Thank you for locating it for me. As a former Texan, North Padre Island is no where the boarder and it is not connected to South Padre Island (near the boarder).
I have not camped there, but drove the jeep from the national seashore to the peer.
Do you believe it’s safer to be in a class C than a travel trailer or 5th wheel sense of anything suspicious started happening around your campsite all you would have to move is from the living area to the driver’s position you wouldn’t have to go out and hook up I was thinking about starting the RV next year and just wondering if it is possible to reinforce the doors Windows Etc to make it harder for an intruder to break in
This is suppose to be the United States Of America. We should have the right to protect ourselfs.. And that is right. Where were the politicians how say take the guns away and we will be safer.. We carry.. All the time. No matter where we are going..
One time in the 1990’s, I stopped and boondocked on a switchback in colorado. Do not remember exactly where though. All I remember is that it was nice part of a bend in the road. My doberman and I spent the night and left the next morning. We were comfortable. Ate dinner and watched a video then went to bed. The next morning my dog went out for a walk to relieve himself and when he got back we left. I do not remember any problems back then. Maybe things have gotten really bad since then. Unfortunately it seems that they have gotten worse. People seem meaner than they were back then. I am still a full timer but now I stay at a friends property for the time being. I will venture out agin soon because the weather is so nice and cool. My thoughts if you want to boondock. Find a fellow camper or two and boondock together. Always carry a firearm. Also when you boondock together make sure you exchange cell phone numbers in case you notice or hear something strange. Call each other so everyone boondocking together is aware that you heard something strange. This way you have more eyes on the situation.. hope my suggestion helps all and please be safe. Rving is still a great way to enjoy life and make friends … Amen …
RvBob
yea, I thought that was strange too when I read the border word so I checked my map and yep 150 to the border. They were no where near the border. Just really bad luck and our prayers are with the family.
RvBob
We camped for years in the RG Valley, South Padre, the Texas Coast up to Galveston and with friends in La Féria. We no longer have any intention of camping anywhere near the Mexican border. We made this decision before the recent murders.
I have had a conceal carry for years and have taken several courses and am an avid trap and sporting clay shooter. I carry everywhere! The world is dangerous and you have to protect yourself and your loved ones. Nobody else is coming in time! I have been more on my game in places like Little Rock and Chicago then in a remote area where I boon dock! Bottom line, it can happen anywhere! Be prepared!
Easy answer for me: no, it will not change where we camp since I only stay in RV parks with full hook ups. Having just a small travel trailer with very limited fresh water, no generator to operate the a/c or microwave and wishing for a bit more security than a secluded beach, I would not boondock even before reading of these murders. As many others here have mentioned, I never go camping (or most anywhere, anytime) without being armed. The physical security offered by an RV is minimal. Locking yourself in and calling 911 may work in a secure home, but a thin walled RV with cheap locks securing the door doesn’t do much. So I stay in RV parks, preferably nicer ones with good lighting and fencing, and stay armed.
go forth armed and trained to use it.
Unless you are carrying a gun on your person, it will not be useful. I’m pretty sure these criminals pretended they were just walking down the beach and engaged this couple on the RV lifestyle. They probably had a nice chat. If they were outside in chairs and the bad guy was packing and their gun (if they had one) was inside the rig, what good is it? I don’t want to live my life strapped while sitting on a beach. Such a disturbing story.
We have seldom boondocked, and then only in very public places (yes, it does require ear plugs and eye shades at times).
True, campgrounds are not always patrolled by rangers or security, but in a campground environment, there are usually other campers nearby. Most bad guys would rather work without an audience.
We had a workcamping gig where we were the only ones in the campground for the first month. It felt a little odd, but we were right off the main road, the gate was locked each night, we had lots of through hikers and yes, my husband was always carrying (I also have a permit).
Being former law enforcement, hubby is trained to “scan the area, ” look for suspicious people, vehicles, etc. We always take precautions. But the truth is that anyone is susceptible to the bad guys at the right place and time. Sad but true.
We will still RV but we would never park alone in our RV in a secluded place any more than we would walk a dark street in a strange town alone. A view of your own is just not worth the risk.
Gun crazy America is a dangerous third world country. So when in crazy-USA, it is likely wise to carry grenades and lots of loaded guns with bullets in the chambers. Not that these will help. When trouble comes, it will be unexpected and unless you are a quick-draw and deeply paranoid person, access to these weapons will be too late. Forget what the bullet heads at the NRA say, more guns equals more deaths. But that’s the 3rd world USA. Enjoy.
We’ve been fulltimers for 10 years, been to every state more than once & Alaska twice. We boondock around 150 days per year. We’ve boondocked near where the Butler’s were twice & we’ve also boondocked just south of Liard Hot Springs, British Columbia, Canada, where that Australian young couple were murdered on the Cassiar Hwy last July 14th. But we refuse to let it stress us out. We both have concealed carry permits (not in Canada) & practice frequently with real life type scenarios. I carry every day when I’m away from the rv in all of the 40+ states that allow it. So far we’ve never encountered any situations that required us to draw on somone. We try to use common sense & don’t take unreasonable risks. I have stopped at a few spots over the years that just didn’t feel right & we moved on. But overall we feel confident & comfortable boondocking most anyplace. Among the million + fulltime rvers on the road, violent incidents are extremely rare & it should not discourage anyone from embarking on this fantastic lifestyle. You’re probably more likely to be hijacked on the way to the grocery store at home or robbed in your stick built home.
I guess the USA should be more like ‘post gun-grab’ Australia, where the preferred method of murder is bludgeoning. Sure…. statistics show that murders and violent crime involving guns has gone down drastically, in Australia since they outlawed firearms (note that there are STILL gun-related crimes/murders being committed!… I guess criminals didn’t get the memo that guns were illegal!), other methods of murder/crime rose.
I was always more afraid of tetanus than anything else on Texas beaches. They are more like tar sand pits than beaches.
Having spent 30+ years visiting Corpus, Port Aransas & North Padre I have always felt safe on the beach or down town Corpus listening to music and going put to eat. When I heard about this senseless murder it bothered my wife and I a lot more than I figured it would. Being fellow RVer’s we have boone docked, walmarted, stayed in state parks, BLM land, monthly rv parks and on the beach at North Padre. Carrying is a great way to protect yourself but any given day you can let your guard down and find yourself in a terrible situation, I did just that and was help up at gun point in a convivence store.
In this particular case we probably never really know what exactly what happened, it could have panned out in many different ways even while being armed.
There are a few changes I hope to make, my wife had not previously carried but has training, now she will carry a percentage of time. I will take great consideration and a joint decision on whether we stay where it is completely isolated, we are considering a class a instead of a travel trailer on our next purchase for the ease of going from the bed to the drivers seat with the least amount of risk, we have had a class c before and only got a tt because we had a pickup that was designed to pull, and we will join Harvest Host for a little more security as well as the pay per sites we already frequent.
WHAT WE WILL NOT CHANGE, is the friendliness of the rv community, sharing a burger or a brat and a cold beer, helping other rver’s whether new or seasoned, and getting to meet some great people who thanks to the social media you can keep in touch with as we all progress towards our goal of exploring and enjoying.
Padre is still safe, yes there are bad people every where including this wonderful piece of paradise called the coastal Texas Riveria.
Common sense goes a long way, a hand gun are two might even the odds and wasp spray as my sister carries when they rv is a huge deterrent.
So go explore and have fun, life has no guarantees!
Yes this will change how and where we camp. And to be cautious around people we don’t know.
It can happen any where…years ago I had my truck/camper serviced on a Saturday afternoon. Then I went to my office on the main drag of a city over 100,000. I wasn’t there 10 minutes. When I came out some guy was trying to break into the camper. He just pushed me aside and took off…could have been much worse. Dumb move on my part. My wife will never see this article…one of the saddest RV stories I’ve heard. I’m convinced there are more dangers out there driving on unfamiliar country roads and traveling thru congested cities than when we are occasionally boondocking, or in Walmarts or rest areas. We only do it on long runs…just to sleep for the night…not to stay for days. We may never know if a firearm might have made a difference…bad guys kill armed law enforcement people far too often. Isn’t it possible the 2 felons were armed?
Yes, my plans had already been to stop RVing after 3 years of travel when news of the Butler murders broke. By then I was already severely burned out by solo female travel and too many close calls – wrong place, wrong time events after well thought out decisions. Many RVers talk about arming themselves. I am highly skilled with several types of weapons but choose not to carry one because I cannot be vigilant 24/7 and a calculated surprise attack could turn that weapon on me. I have already had enough close calls and have decided to hang up the keys. The Butler tragedy determined my “park it for good” date.
Condolences to the Butler family. Such a tragic loss.
P.S.
No one has mentioned their beloved cats. Where are they?
and
Why was the trailer crime scene left in Mexico?!? That seems pretty stupid.
We boondock near Surfside Beach (south of Galveston) several times a year on the beach, yards from the water. We have a Class A and is well lit (string of large lights) and haven’t felt unsafe. Usually there are other campers within a few hundred yards but it can get very dark. I really feel there is a lot more to the story and hopefully we will receive more details that may help any of us from getting in that situation. It maybe that they weren’t even on the beach when this occurred.
Yes, this has affected me. If I were to die, would I be ready to meet my Saviour. Many may not think about this, and yes we could be killed in an accident. I’ve been thinking more and wish we could stay in more RV parks, but we live on Social Security, and most charge $25-50 a night. I have begun to think that maybe we will need to stay monthly, or rent an apartment. All I can do is surrender my life to Christ and go where he bids me.
This man and woman couple probably played the two campers and won over their trust. The criminals have done this before and knew exactly where to head to unload their booty. Sickens me…I pray for eternal peace for the murdered couple. May they rest in peace.
I will pay more attention to my surroundings & not be so quick to invite people into my home. I still believe first impressions are important.
Statistically you’re more likely to be killed driving to your camp spot than any other way. Be aware of your surroundings and be safe.
Do you believe it’s safer to be in a class C than a travel trailer or 5th wheel sense of anything suspicious started happening around your campsite all you would have to move is from the living area to the driver’s position you wouldn’t have to go out and hook up I was thinking about starting the RV next year and just wondering if it is possible to reinforce the doors Windows Etc to make it harder for an intruder to break in
My wife and I have never boon-docked, although we have thought about and discussed it and it is tempting; however this article only solidify’s my belief we should should not. I want other campers around and the safety of a fenced in campground.
Safety in gated communities and 24 hour staffed campsites are simply an illusion created by marketing . You are your own safety and responsibility everywhere you go. Act like it. The idea that Cops and Security Guards will or can protect you everywhere or be there at a moments notice is laughable and irresponsible for grown adults. Trust your neighbor but tie up your horse. ”It would be shameful for us to depend for safety on the weapons of others and refuse to carry weapons for ourselves.” The Education of Cyrus, Xenophon ca 370 BC
Unfortunately this is a fact of life when traveling in the USA. This story does not mention guns but I am sure they were involved. For a country that thinks they are the best at everything, it is mind boggling how you think that guns are the answer to being safer. The only country that thinks this way and yet the only country that has the issues with guns. You just have to shake your head at the lack of common sense. No guns, no problems. Period. In the meantime, pick your spots and maybe camp near others.
We are new to the RV life and I find this very unsettling. We have joined “boondockers welcome” which is a website based group of fellow RVers who have graciously opened up their property to allow members to stay over night on our way to our final destination We have stayed at two different places and have felt very welcomed and safe. Much more so than at a rest stop which we have also done – not that we have felt threatened at the rest stops. Not a long term boondocks solution but we recommend it for the one or two nights depending on your situation. Some of them even have electricity
If you are camping in out of the way places dogs will offer more security than cats. As has already been mentioned, having a firearm can also help.
We really don’t know the details here. Maybe they invited the suspects for a drink, lowered their guard and things went south?
My wife and I used to camp on the beach south of the Malaquite campground to watch the moon rise over the gulf in the evening, and the sun rise in the morning. Beautiful.
As I read, it recalled to mind a Patrick Swayze line in the movie Road House: “trouble seems to come to those who are unprepared for it; not much problem for those who are prepared. I suspect it’s always been that way.”
I live north of Houston. Around here I have been told that Ford-F250 trucks are hot items to steal. The thought is that thieves like these vehicles because they want the towing capacity for their utility trailers. (Think startup landscaping businesses). Just letting you know, because many RVers use these trucks to pull their rigs. Your vehicle may be a tempting target. For me, I prefer not to stay in isolated areas. Yes, campgrounds don’t have rangers, but there are usually other people around. That alone may deter the worst offenders. I saw a TV episode of “I survived” where an RVing couple was terrorized by a gang of men on an isolated road in Mexico. I believe the man had a gun but it was not within reach when he was ambused. This episode is worth a watch just for the educational value. (So, if you are counting on a weapon, you had better have it in a holster on you, fully-loaded, and you are well-practiced in using it. My dad kept a loaded pistol under his pillow when we camped–and this was in the 70s. Of course, someone could have ambushed him during the day and what good would that pistol have been? And if you have a shotgun–which is the only weapon I could hit anybody with–will you have that weapon within reach? Just saying, folks. If you are depending on a weapon, just think about it.) I think it is better to try to avoid isolated places–at least in Texas and the Southwest. I think Mexico is getting more dangerous and the old idea that if you leave the drug cartels alone, they will leave you alone may not hold anymore. Read this report of an ambush in Mexico that killed a bunch of women and children:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/after-mormon-familys-terror-in-mexico-a-message-emerges-no-one-is-safe/ar-BBWqT3g?ocid=NL_ENUS_A1_20191110_1_2
I also watched an epidsode of “Drugs, Inc.” about the drug problems in Montanta and apparently the drug cartels have moved into areas up there, too. This is the problem you have with isolated spots. At the very least, I would ask the locals about safety before I parked. Plus couples who travel together using a couple of rigs are probably safter than one alone. Just my two cents. (And as an after thought about my father, we’re lucky none of the kids got ahold of the gun or that the ranger didn’t have some reason to poke his head in the tent in the middle of the night!)
Back in the 50’s there was no pier, no nothing on So Padre Island. Our group of boys and girls would dig a hole in the sand, light a driftwood fire, and spend the night! Those were wonderful times, but they are, sadly, long gone. We often spend the night at Walmart, but never on the beach or in the woods.
We’ve tent camped on Padre Island National Seashore for 50 years. Never had a problem. Now that I’m a geezer I have a trailer RV. Have not taken it to the seashore yet, mostly because I live far away now. But I wouldn’t hesitate to do so again given the chance. We all need to guard against succumbing to paranoia. Take precautions yes, but remember, 40k people die every year in traffic accidents, yet we all get behind the wheel every day. Enjoy life, take risks, love and grow.
Texas is not the only place where potential danger lurks..just a few miles from my location in Missouri, Ive seen “tents” poping up at a state park that’s remote so, it’s hardly ever monitor by park officials, except on occasionial drive by. Most frequent campers seen in there, are from Mexico.
You can tell a person’s nationality just by driving by and looking at them? Impressive. /s
I want to believe, and maybe it will come out in the trial, that this sequence of events started before they got to the beach. Maybe, like others said, the killers saw the truck earlier in the day and followed them to the beach. Maybe at a gas station, the victims shared their camping plans with a friendly stranger.
So, in other words, it wasn’t the beach that was dangerous. It was premeditated and the beach provided opportunity.
Logically, the further away you are from other people (and no one knows you’re there) the less likely you are to be found by a killer.
Like, no criminal stakes out a wilderness each night HOPING that maybe someone will show up in an rv.
Well, that’s what I would like to believe.
Why, yes you can! Especially if they are from mexico. No disrespect to mexicans by the way.
We have been fulltime for 2.5 years and we stay in RV parks and campgrounds, we have stayed along the road a few times boondocking and we will not be doing that again,only rest areas and places where people are will be accepted. So sorry for the Butler family and their kids and Cats too,we travel with cats also😪😿
Wondering if you might name the state park, so travelers can be cautious.
Most tragedies are freak happenings like getting t-boned at an intersection by a drunk driver (as happened to my pastor who lost his wife). I camped in Northern British Columbia with grizzlies and cougars and never carried a gun or spray. Yes I had a couple close encounters but I’m still here. Once I was witness to a crazy kid who murdered a boy so he could avoid deportation to China. I tracked him down in the streets of Vancouver in a wild car chase until the police caught up with him and took him down. He was charged with 1st degree murder but found not guilty by reason of insanity. Of course one is crazy to kill a defenseless baby but this is our Canadian criminal justice system – its justice for the criminal. Life is hard and unpredictable and you step out of your door never knowing if you will return. My 2 cents on life is make sure you know where you are heading when you check out of this life – and the death rate on earth is 100%. I’m an old dude and my expiry date is getting close. I will recommend putting your faith and trust in the only one that has loved us just as we are regardless of our race, pedigree, sexual orientation or background. Jesus Christ. Sure a lot of people have turned away from Him because of crazy religious people who have made a mockery of His teachings and His message and He still stands knocking at the door of hearts hoping that they will invite Him in. If you have ever seen that painting of Christ knocking on the door you will notice there’s no door handle on the outside. Its we that have to let Him in. Go back to the ancient story of the Garden of Eden. what was the first thing God felt after his kids went astray? Loneliness. God called out ”Adam…where are you?”
that same call is going out to all of us today…God wants to camp out with us. Now and forever more. Don’t delay…time is ticking.
Praise the Lord —– And pass the amunition!
As I stated before, I have camped on the beach in Texas a dozen times the last few years and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I don’t do it because it’s free or I’m cheap. It’s a million dollar view being 90 feet from the waters edge, watching the moon shine off the water, etc. There are million dollar homes further off the beach than I am when I am glamping. If you’ve never done it you don’t know what you are missing. I can afford to stay in any RV park I want but if I can pull up on a beach and wake up and go to sleep to the ocean/gulf, it’s spectacular. In none of those stays did I feel threatened or fearful. Are those who own houses on the beach afraid for their life? They are taking as big a risk as I am.
I think families with children boondocking is extremely irresponsible I do look down on the whole family RV life but that to me for this exact reason is extremely irresponsible.
Oh my gosh, all these scenarios where people think they are safe because of their concealed or displayed weapon is a little misguided.
Im not saying you shouldn’t carry. Go ahead, it sounds like a great, logical solution. But the typical scenario where the “bad guy” is going to be obvious and give you time to react is a fantasy.
1. If I was a drug dealer and you accidentally saw something you shouldn’t have on the beach, you’re not going to hear me coming. We would just take you out without warning. You, your family and your dog too.
2. If I was a criminal low life you befriended at the convenience store in the gas station before you went to the beach, and I decided you must be rich and have a lot of stuff in your rv that i could steal, you wouldn’t see me follow you to the beach and set up a position to observe you, wait until dark, and then strike without warning when i saw the perfect opportunity (like you set that gun down to take a sip of wine while you’re sitting next to the fire.
3. If I was a drug addict, high on something that removed my inhibitions and made me feel invincible and bullet proof, and i accidentally came across your RV on the beach and started pounding on the door, giving you plenty of time to react? Yeah sure you would have plenty of time to get your weapon and shoot me, but then after the fact its an argument about whether deadly force was necessary. All I did was pound on your door because I was so high I thought it was a magical beach castle. Sure you were scared, but will you be charged with man slaughter?
4. Im a stupid criminal who smashes open your front door and demands you hand over all your valuable. This is that moment you trained for. You have time to aim your weapon. But in that moment, that moment you prepared for in your head, over and over again, will you stay in control? Will you shoot first? Will you try and talk me down? Maybe there will be so much adrenaline that you won’t be able to handle yourself, or your weapon like you believed you would. Suddenly you realize its not like the movies. Did you escalate the situation and now your wife has a stray bullet in her head? Was that your fault?
5. How about a show of hands? How many reading this have shot someone harassing them while camping? And, how did it go?
Well, being a Law-Enforcement family, the hubby and I are fairly trained in firearm use and ‘shoot/don’t shoot’ situations, and fairly certain that we are not the oblivious idiots that ‘don’t see you coming’. I can’t speak for others who’ve stated they carry while traveling, but I can tell you that conceal-carry DOES indeed save lives and can de-escalate situations, while helping local Law-enforcement in detaining criminals. It happens all. the. time.
So, Brianna, This thread asked us if we would change our boondocking or camping procedures in light of the murders in Texas. Rather than berating others for their concise answers, perhaps tell us what changes YOU’D make in your camping routine, if any. How do YOU protect yourself when RVing… or do you leave your protection up to fate?
Nothing is 100% assured, except your vulnerability when unarmed and facing armed evil people. Give up your arms and you are a victim. Your fear of defending yourself, and depending on others to defend you make you a fatuous idealist. I hope there is always someone seconds away when you need help.
I love people like Monica who decide things for me, like concluding that I have a “false sense of security” because I choose to be armed. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. In no way can you know how I feel about anything, including my “Sense of security” unless I tell you or you observe me demonstrating it. If you choose not to arm yourself that’s fine by me. You live your life and I’ll live mine. I know my capabilities. You do not! Confine your blanket value judgements to yourself please!
Nov 11, 2021 — Williams pleaded guilty to the murders and will serve life in prison.
https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/williams-noverr-expected-to-enter-pleas-today-in-pins-murder-case